tv CNN Newsroom With Carol Costello CNN April 17, 2015 6:00am-7:01am PDT
myself. thank you for being by my side. especially you, poppy. >> i could drag out anything i could, and the fact that he was that patient was rather remarkable. >> have a great, great weekend, everybody. "newsroom" starts right now. >> this was not an intentional thing. i had no desire to ever take anybody's life. >> happening now in the "newsroom," a tulsa reserve deputy explains for the first time how he mistook his gun for a taser and shooting an unarmed man, and you will hear his side of the story as questions surface about his training. plus the feds say this man was trained by terrorists in syria before returning home to the united states but authorities say this ohio man, what he planned to do before he was stopped. let's talk live in the "cnn newsroom"s.
good morning, everyone. happy friday. i am deborah feyerick and i am in for carol costello this morning. the first interview with the reserved deputy that shot and killed an unarmed suspect after mistaking his taser for his firearm, and you will hear robert bates explain how this happened. >> on your stomach. >> oh, i shot him. i am sorry. >> and during this morning's interview, bates alternated between choked up and also defiant, insisting that anybody could have made this mistake. here is how he describes what happened in that deadly shooting. >> my taser is right here on the front tucked in a protective vest and my gun itself is on my
side normally to the rear. >> people are going to look at that mr. bates, and they are going to say how can you make this mistake? how could you think you were going for your taser on your chest tucked into that vest and accidentally pull your weapon? >> let me say, this has happened a number of times around the country and i have read about it in the past and i thought to myself after reading several cases, i don't understand how this can happen. you must believe me, it can happen to any one. >> and ed is live in tulsa. ed he says it could happen to anyone? >> reporter: he did, and his version of the events has not changed and it's what sheriff officials have been saying and it's what he put into a statement he wrote days after the shooting as well, and the interview is an opportunity to ask about other issues that have been swirling around this case namely his training the tulsa
world newspaper here in tulsa reported that his training records were falsified by various officials at the sheriff's department and the sheriff's department here in tulsa say they do not respond to rumors but they told local affiliates this is simply not the case and robert bates was asked about the issue of his training this morning as well. >> that is not correct. i have a written piece of paper that mr. warren in jail signed off to say i had done a good job, and, you know the smallen law firm it has been most interesting, and they seem to represent most people that have been terminated by the sheriff's office.
>> you did the training and you can prove that you were certified? >> that is absolutely the truth. i have it in writing. >> reporter: those questions are still swirling and the reporters who wrote that story for the tulsa world newspaper telling cnn they stand by their story, and they said they had five sources for that story, so questions are still swirling around that. the sheriff in tulsa has not spoken directly or out about this at all, so you know those questions still out here this morning. >> it's very interesting mr. bates would try to plead his case in the court of public opinion, trying to define the issues. ed lavandera, thank you so much. let's bring in one of the reporters that broke the story saying bates' records were falsified. what do you make of his defense?
>> i guess i would be very interested to see the documentation that he has the hundreds of hours of training that the sheriff's department claims he has. this could be cleared up by the sheriff's office producing the records, or producing the two supervisors still employed there who were transferred. >> those supervisors, they have spoken to you but they have not spoken out, and they stand by their words and what happened to them correct? >> they have actually not spoken to them directly, and we spoke to five sources outside the department and sources that back up the story they are telling us and we have had other people come forward within the sheriff's department saying our story is right, and there is more they have not published
yet. we have nothing to the contrary. >> it's interesting, because the sheriff's spokesperson came out and said they are relying on a single course and that person is in prison on murder charges. what is interesting, how they are describing who they believe to be your source but the lengths they went to actually check visiting records inside that prison to see who was coming in and out. do you think that is intimidation? >> really it's a classic case of blaming the phesmessenger. was he properly trained to take on his duty is very important. this person they are referring to was definitely not one of our sources, and that's all i can say is we stand by our reporter and i prefer they focus on
getting the documents we requested and complying with the open records act. >> the fact the sheriff's department is trying to do its own investigation to find out who leaked but technically, couldn't they themselves be under an investigation or audit because of what happened and because of the questions that are being raised about their deputy reserve program? >> it's my understanding that the fbi is looking into this and investigating this. the sheriff tim alben asked about the investigation. it should be reviewed by an outside agency in terms of what records are available and what occurred here, and i believe the fbi is looking into it. >> what is your relationship historically been with the sheriff? obviously you work in the town and everybody knows each other sometimes and you have different
interactions. has the relationship between "the tulsa world" and the sheriff been amicable? >> absolutely. i have been reporting in tulsa for 20 years, and i have written many stories about the sheriff, both positive and negative and our job is to bring our readers the truth, and we are government watch dogs like any local newspaper should be. >> do you think now that obviously richard bates' record has come into question as a deputy and the number of hours he did or did not have and so far he has not produced any evidence or independent evidence correct? >> the sheriff's office handed out a thick stack of computer generated reports listing every class he has taken, and i would like to see the documentation,
and there is a lot of inconsistencies of what they are saying? >> do you think there is a cover-up going on right now by the sheriff's department? >> i don't know. all i know is they handed out records of training a week ago and then last night they told another reporter who is working on this with me that they don't know where the records are, and they would have haf more information, and they would have to know who his trainers were and i would hope they would know that, and they don't seem to be in a hurry to get the records that could prove their case. >> do you believe other deputy reserves could be investigated as well to see if they meet the qualifications? >> i think that review would certainly be a prudent thing to do. most of the people on the list -- we will get into this on a sunday story, our pillars of community, we are not casting
asupertions on any of them but we are hoping they are trained for the positions they are placed in. >> thank you so much. keep up the reporting. we will be watching and reading. thank you so much. >> thank you. still to come allegations of homegrown terror unfold in an ohio courtroom. prosecutors say this man trained with terrorists in syria, but he planned to come back here to the united states to launch his attack. the e-class has 11 intelligent driver-assist systems. it recognizes pedestrians and alerts you. warns you about incoming cross-traffic. cameras and radar detect dangers you don't. and it can even stop by itself. so in this crash test, one thing's missing: a crash. the 2015 e-class. see your authorized dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services.
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zero heartburn. growing fears about homegrown terrorism. a u.s. citizen is today behind bars after officials say he traveled overseas to train with the terror group and then return home to plan an attack on american soil. according to the indictment muhammad travelled to syria, and he was trained. we are joined by our reporter with this story. this is remarkable. they caught this person and it's exactly what they feared all along, people are going to train, and instead of fighting over there they are going to take everything they know and come back here. >> that's what makes this case so significant. it's the first time a u.s. citizen has been charged with not just traveling there but
specifically coming back to carry out attacks. take a look at what he was planning. back from syria, radicalized, and according to authorities, with intent to kill. this 23-year-old american is in custody this morning and the fbi said he was planning to do something big in the u.s. muhammad left his hometown of columbus ohio in april of last year according to an indictment on a one-way ticket to athens greece but muhammad never boarded his connecting flight after stopping in turkey and instead, authorities say, an accomplice picked him up and drove him to a border town where he crossed over into syria. muhammad allegedly trained with terrorists in shooting weapons, and breaking into houses and using explosives and hand to hand combat. officials did not say which group he trained with. two months into the military type camp, a cleric told
muhammad to return to the united states and carry out an act of terrorism, according to the indictment. now the 23-year-old told others that he wanted to kill american soldiers execution style at a military base in texas, and his backup plan was to attack a prison specifically wanting to target armed forces including police officers. it's not clear just how far along any such plans were. muhammad expressing such support for isis on social media a year prior to leaving for syria. >> as long as isis remains, as long as they are not defeated they are going to continue to inspire individuals like that to go and join the jihad and get trained and come back and pose the threat to the west and to america. >> now, it's not clear exactly how far along he was with the plans, and he has just been
charged with three counts two of aiding a terrorists network and terrorists individuals, and another of giving false information to the fbi. if he is convicted he would face up to 38 years in total for all of the accounts and the arraignment should happen within a few hours, and he is planning according to his defense lawyer to plead not guilty. >> which is what many of them do plead not guilty and see where that goes. thank you for joining us. for more i want to bring in the former aide to petraeus, and he is a cnn military analyst. welcome, colonel. when you look at the indictment do you believe he was the real deal that he had the resources to pull this off? >> well it doesn't take much resources to pull something like this off. it takes a one-way ticket to athens, greece with a stop over in instan bull.
this is a person we are fearing, and his brother went over a year before him and died in syria, and he went and got radicalized and came back with the intention of terrorizing here in the united states. >> it's unclear whether he joined up with isis or whether he joined up with an al qaeda faction, but he returned in june of last year so is it -- can we assume that he was under surveillance by authorities during that time? he was only arrested in february. >> my guess is that they were tracking him when he disappeared in turkey and then appeared back in the united states and they were no doubt, he was a person of interest and my guess is that the fbi was monitoring his various postings on social media and so forth, and then when they finally had enough information to indictment him, they moved, and that was just
recently. >> it's interesting, because the somali community has really been at least -- i don't want to say they have been watched but clearly the fbi has known that there are concerns with the community, and there has been a great deal of out reach by the fbi and other law enforcement agencies to try and target the community so they don't -- you know so these young men don't go and fight. have those out reach programs not succeeded? if somebody like this can post on facebook and broadcast his intentions and then actually get to syria? >> let's be clear. there is more than 45,000 somalis here in ohio many of them in columbus, and we have evidence of one who has been radicalized, and we don't want to paint the entire community with such a broad brush, and the somali community will do what it can and authorities will help it to make sure their young people
don't become radicalized in this manner. >> it's interesting, also he chose not to go back to his country of origin somalia, but he chose to go to syria and fight instead. does that suggest anything? >> you know i think he followed his older brother over there, and so in this case i think it was a family tie and he admired what his brother had done so his question is why did his brother go to syria instead of somalia, and that's something that has to be sorted out. i think what it shows is that when they get -- when isis or the various groups over there get an american or european those people once they become trained is much more valuable as terrorists out in the west than foughter on the front lines in syria or iraq. >> yeah it is something that has been on the radar for a long
time clearly back to 2003 or 2004. i once spoke to a somali mom saying we did not bring our children here so they can go back there and get killed which is clearly what the older brother did and his younger brother taking it to a different level. still to come. >> 12 people will look at a puzzle and each person is going to say certain pieces stick out to them more than the other. >> jurors in the aaron hernandez murder trial break their silence in an interview with anderson cooper, and why they saw extreme atrocity and cruelty in the former nfl star's actions. [ female announcer ] when you're serious about fighting wrinkles, turn to roc® retinol correxion®. one week fine lines appear to fade. one month deep wrinkles look smoother. after one year, skin looks ageless. high performance skincare™ only from roc®.
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in different ways. i am wondering what pieces of the puzzle were most important to you? >> that's what makes a group of 12 people so great is that 12 different people are going to look at a puzzle and each person is going to say that certain pieces stick out to them more than the other. >> specifically for you, was there something that jumped out at you? >> the judge's instructions? >> what about the instructions? what part of what she said? >> the different directions for the law. it was the definition of murder one, and the definition of extreme atrocity or cruelty. those were the words that i was stuck on and people helped me with that. i needed clarity, and i searched for those people that could give me that clarity in that room. >> for murder one, they have to show pre-med indication ormeditation
or cruelty. >> it was or. i can't say with 100% certainty that he premeditated that while i was sitting in that jury room. >> but you saw extreme atrocity. >> was it with the number of shots? >> it was his indifference and that was part of what i had to look the. and it -- even if there was no premeditation, he could have made choices there when he was there. he was there. they admitted that and he could have made different choices and he chose not to. >> for us to have knowledge that he was there at the time that his close friend was murdered personally there is no way i could just carry on hours later like nothing ever happened and
that's indifference. >> let's talk more about this with the cnn analyst and criminal defense attorney danny saw ball yos, and also joined by the prosecutor dan shore. what is your initial reaction to what you heard from the jurors about atrocity and cruelty? >> well the concept of atrocity is really very form yaoic when you look at the instructions. if you look at the jury instructions for extreme atrocity in massachusetts, you need not find it was an intentional killing so long as the defendant created a substantial likelihood of death, and one of the atrocity factors, one of them indifference and they admitted aaron hernandez
witnessed and was at the scene, and that was a jumping off period for them to find that indifference. that was to try and build credibility with the jury and at the same time they used that to spring board off of it and say he was there and look how indifferent he was. the atrocity factors are itemized in the juror instructions and indifference was one of several options they could use to conclude that this killing was committed with extreme atrocity. >> it's amazing to me the defense attorney would drop that bombshell at the end of the trial after making it appear that his client was not necessarily there or part of it. i mean i am wondering, do you think it should have been a completely different defense? >> not that it should have been a different defense, but it should have been consistent from the beginning to the end. at the beginning they were contesting he was at the scene of the crime and by the end in
closing they were saying he was at the scene and he just witnessed his friend had been shot and killed and didn't know what to do, and the jurors said that was not consistent with the videotape where he was hanging out to those that supposedly killed his friend and handed his daughter to one of them to hold and that did not make sense. >> robert kraft took the stand and said hernandez said to him he was not guilty because the timing of lloyd's murder and he said i could not have done it because i was at a club. let's listen to what the juror said about that. >> kraft came and had seen him the day after the incident and asked him if he did it and aaron said no, i am completely innocent. in fact i hope the time that odom was murdered is made
public because at that time i was at a club even after a medical examiner conducted an autopsy he could not conclude what time he was murdered so two years ago how would aaron have that information especially if he was not involved so for me that was important. >> and interesting, if he was not involved how would he have known that he was simply not there and he was at a club. again, it seems that was a big nail in the coffin as part of also this kind of cover-up. >> it's always fascinating what jurors seize on. they did not pay as much attention to the video of the prosecution saying there's a big heavy box and a gun in there, you have to believe us and instead they focused on this. there's an old saying that jurors like to think they arrived at a conclusion by themselves and when they see hernandez making a colossal
blunder in evidence saying at the time i was at a club, and i think the jurors feel more comfortable hanging liability on a defendant that says something so tkpwau lat particularly stupid. >> seems he took care of what was going to go down, but not enough. we thank you both for your time. you can catch more on anderson cooper's interview tonight on "ac 360." we'll be right back. flonase controls six. so go ahead, inhale life. new flonase. six is greater than one. this changes everything. thanks for coming. we want a spirited performance. who offers the most horsepower? lincoln mkc. we also want clever thinking in a tight spot. anyone offer hands-free in and out park assist? lincoln mkc.
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a defendant that says something checking top stories, a bipartisan effort on capitol hill may soon force a vote on loretta lynch, president obama's nominee for attorney general. democrats oppose an anti-abortion measure tacked on to a human trafficking bill and that could be tweaked so enough democrats can support the bill and clear the way for the vote on lynch. and then adding fuel to criticism to the response of the unrest after the deadly police shooting of unarmed teenager michael brown. documents also reveal national
guard leadership tapped down the militarized language following the deployment. and jeh johnson said the man that landed his gyrocopter on the capitol lawn this week flew under the radar. the man could spend up to four years behind bars. hughes says he pulled off the stunt to protest campaign finance laws. and then the primary nine months away but for republicans that want to be president, it's go time. some have declared 2016 and others have not to descend for a leadership summit this weekend, and another attendie jeb bush getting a head start last night who responded to critics worried
about another bush in the white house. >> i have to prove that i am not running for president if i go beyond the consideration of this of being an active candidate, trying to break the tie between the adams family and the bush family. that really is not my motivation. but i have to prove that. first and foremost i have to show my heart and i have to show that i have ideas that will make it possible for america to rise up again, and i have to show i have the leadership skills not just to yap about it but to do it. >> here to discuss with us mr. johnson, and an editor for "the source" magazine. jason, bush seemingly admitting that he is going to have to overcome perceptions about his families, and i found it interesting he compared it to the adams family and not the
kennedys or the gores. how is he going to break through and dismiss that concern? >> i think he is doing a great job already. he doesn't have the suit on and he has the sleeves rolls up and he drives himself to chipotle instead of being driven there like hillary clinton did. he is counter the dynasty talk by i am a normal guy. >> a boston globe reporter had this to say, the one person looming over the entire two-day weekend is hillary clinton. how do they deal with her? >> i think you have already seen this start already, and it started with marco rubio's announcement on monday which was an amazing contrast that today versus yesterday, and it's pretty much the beginning of what you are going to see when it comes to republicans going after hillary. it's about her and not so much president obama so much anymore, because he is really yesterday's news, and he is on his way out.
what you are going to see this weekend is -- i don't think you are going to see the 11th commandment broken you don't go after your fellow republicans too much and you will see some shots if somebody thaedz to emerge and they want to have their own identities because there is 19 that will be there, and you will see hillary clinton be the center of those attacks versus each other this weekend. >> so it's safe probably a feeding frenzy? >> yeah. >> many people obviously the post popular get the most press, but it's interesting because there are 20 people -- almost 20 people in the gop that have declared they want to run. will any of them succeed in getting the kind of traction they need to be more relevant perhaps than going into the weekend? >> i think some are making a great run for vp and that's eventually what they are doing. everybody knows who the top
tiers are, walker and bush and maybe rubio, and everybody else is hoping if somebody at the top stumbles i can run and jump ahead of them and run and get on the ticket with a new administration. >> not necessarily, and i think now those are the frontrunners now and things change so quickly, and a breakout performance here or there can bump somebody up or down rather quickly, like scott walker people were murmuring of him being a potential candidate, and then the iowa summit which happened in january, and he had a spectacular performance by most peoples' standards and it showed a side of him for those skeptical of him, and they said he has personality and a great message, and that gave him momentum into cpac and now into this event and he has the
keynote speaking spot, and he is closing this performance. he was not considered a top tier before that. >> the republicans go home and they get a great weekend and who comes in to sort of make things different is hillary clinton, because she is expected to be back on monday. it's interesting, she said in 2008 it was new hampshire that helped her find her voice and rebound against the candidate, barack obama. do you think -- how does this strategically work? the republicans leave and then she comes in you know and it's because new hampshire is so important. what do we see going on here? >> hillary clinton recognizes she gets to set the narrative. there are 19 republicans and they are crabs in a barrel right now and hillary gets to come in and say i am above the frey and new hampshire, i am just dropping by and will talk to you on my way back to washington,
d.c. she is going to be trailing them and showing up as the calm and relaxing person after the scrum. >> her scooby doo trip the people in new hampshire are sophisticated enough to know what is authentic and what isn't, and they will look and say we want to know what is real? if you are going to manufacture the controlled events that's not going to go over in new hampshire, and she -- her folks better teach her to be more authentic and not control it or it will continue to be the butt of many jokes. >> we appreciate both of you being here for us and of course we will be talking about that a lot moreover over the coming months
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now. the mastermind of the islamic state in iraq has been killed. he was a prominent former aide to the late iraqi president, hussein, and his killing is a blow to isis and he was killed in a wide scale military operation, and he was in the infamous deck of cards put out in 2003 and 2004 prior to the capture of saddam hussein. i want to bring in colonel peter
phaupb sore who is with us. how important to the dynamic in the region is the killing of al bouri. >> what has made isislet lethal he was the king of clubs in the deck of cards, and to kill him is to kill perhaps one of the key masterminds of isis' campaign in iraq. >> it's interesting, because there has been a discussion whether he was with isis whether he was sort of with a break-away group, the knock shaw pawn degroup, and he is considered a terror leader and when you talk about him being the mastermind of the islamic
state, talk to me about how that came to be? >> he is the commander of an insurgent group and they formed an alliance with isis. when they retreated into syria, they formed an alliance and together they decided they would go back into iraq and kick out the regime in baghdad and take over iraq again, and it's this combination of form apathice and former militants that made isis so potent. >> after the fall of saddam hussein, many of his top leaders were not only alienated from the government but they left and they formed their own, quote, unquote, government or terror group. what happens now? is it like the eb and flow of
the ocean? will somebody come in and replace him? >> there will be a replacement, and we have seen this before with the deaths of the senior terror leaders, and somebody else will step up but whether if somebody steps up you keep pecking away at senior leadership and hopefully reduce confidence of people that remain and that's part of the campaign to defeat isis. >> just fascinating as you say that he was the king of clubs in that infamous u.s. deck of cards. saddam hussein obviously being the top person there. i want to bring in atika shubert joining us. there's the picture of that famous card. i want to bring in atika shubert who is with us now. what are some of the details of how this went down and who killed him? >> we're still getting those details in. it's been reported on iraqi state tv that iraqi security forces were involved together with another militia conducting
what they're describing as a surprise operation. now, it happened in between tikrit and kirkuk. it's interesting. it's sort of an area that's more remote. it's not exactly clear what happened or how he was killed. all we know it was in a surprise operation. clearly for iraqis they say this is an important blow against isis and they are specifically saying they are describing him as a terrorist. they are making that link very clear. >> it's interesting. does he have any -- you're right. obviously as the one who created this particular state, does he have any direct connection to the concept of creation of a -- >> he was a believer in the
baathist regime. it was about reclaiming that. what his role has always been murky. he's always been a mythical figure among militias because he's this pedigree with saddam hussein regime. what was rumored was that some sort of an alliance was made with isis and this is what laid the groundwork for isis being able to march through northern iraq and eventually taking over mosul. in recent months there's been more reporting that whatever alliance was there may have started to fray. there are reports of infighting between groups led by al douri and other groups led by isis. it's not clear how much sway he had with isis at this point. >> colonel, i want to bring you back in as well on this particular subject. so the different groups for some it's hard to keep track of to figure out who is winning and
who is losing. where do you see winners and losers in this? >> the alliance between the baathist insurgent groups and isis was bound to fray because in the end they have different goals. isis wants a caliphate with baghdadi at the head and baathist wanted iraq back for themselves and they were using the jihadists as their tool to make that happen. now that this alliance is fraying, you're going to see infighting and perhaps you're going to see capabilities of isis decline somewhat. they are still a very lethal group and you'll see these various groups in various areas fighting perhaps on their own without overarching coordination from syria. >> when you talk about sort of the jihadists and there's
obviously a lot of infighting. are we going to see what amounts to a disintegration of any cohesiveness or unity or master plan? does that work in the united states' favor or does that create a situation that is more toxic in the middle east than already exists? i'll start with you, colonel. >> i think it works in our favor. it's easier to defeat this group a piece at a time. as you begin to rollback isis they'll turn on themselves. who is at fault for the defeat? why aren't we winning? why aren't we advancing anymore. as they turn in on themselves various parts of the islamic state become vulnerable to attacks. >> all right. atika, what's your assessment of the situation just in terms of you saying the groups are fraying. effectively how does it end? >> we don't know how it ends. ultimately what the united states has been pushing for is a political solution in which the assad regime finds some way in
syria to stabilize that country which allows the situation in iraq hopefully to be stabilized as well. the fact is there are so many rebel groups and so many different insurgency groups now, isis is only one of those militant groups with a jihadist mission. >> it's also very interesting the undercurrent of what you both are saying which is that for both syria and iraq the leaders sort of there. isis is sort of a tool is what the colonel said to basically gain control or regain power. all right. we want to thank you both. the next hour of "cnn newsroom" begins after a quick break.
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and now in the "newsroom," it can happen to anyone. words from the tulsa reserve deputy who mistook his gun for a taser. what he says happened in that deadly shooting. also allegedly trained by terrorists. sent home to carry out an attack on u.s. soil. an american citizen now charged. what we know about the alleged plot and possible targets. plus -- >> it was his indifference and
that was part of what i had to look at. >> a cnn exclusive with the hernandez trial jury. what they say pushed them to convict the former nfl star of murder. let's talk in the "cnn newsroom." good morning. i'm deborah feyerick. thank you for joining me. a lot to bring you this morning. we begin right now with the new fallout from ferguson missouri. this time the spotlight is on the national guard. internal memos obtained by cnn show that the guard which was deployed to help local law enforcement tamp down unrest used phrases like enemy forces and adversaries to describe protesters. cnn justice reporter evan perez is in washington. evan astonishing that the national guard